AN ONLINE CHAT A SESSION WITH MY FRIEND JACK BACK AT CORNELL ON AFFIRMATIVE ACTION (AA).
I think it is always a good idea to have discussion and engage each other on the “hot” issues in our societies today. In doing so I think we can learn from each other and positively influence each other.
I just decide to post this archive from one of the discussions that I have heard with friends especially in College concerning controversial issues in our societies today. Jack and I are great friend and we agree in almost many things.
Here is our conversation on Affirmative action (AA)
Notice that Jack seeked my opinion on AA, which he had with another friend. That is why am quoting some of the thinks he said or the other friend said in their conversation and I was stating my position on the same. Some of the quoted stuff may not be all Jack’s, could be other friend who said it. Anyways here we go:
Hey Jack, My comments are in blue, I picked some of the points that I thought I had a different perspective from yours.
You said, “Letting in people who won't do as well brings down the mean, which makes it easier for me to get an A in my classes. I'm for it!”
This is really interesting from your point of view and I think you are making an assumption that the highest percentage of those who score relatively low are from the “minority groups”. Absolutely I disagree with you, coz no statistics show your claim is truth so I think to begin with; you are headed in the wrong direction! If that is your reason for supporting AA, then it is misplaced.
You said “Judging people on anything but previous performance and experience is racism”
Absolutely I agree with U on this
You said “It makes sense that if I preform better than those applying at the same time with me then I would have a better chance to get in, right?”
No argument about it that is how it is supposed to be
You said “Affirmative action allows for less qualified persons to have equal or better chances of getting accepted than myself because of their race or financial background, in short that's 'inverse racism.' (bear with me) I know (because in the last six months I've applied to over 40 places) that on many job applications employers have added a comment under the "ethnicity" question that says "this information is not used for job placement." I've also noted that the information is not required at all, that an applicant can be judged only by their record and not their race or financial background. This should be a model for college admissions offices, accepting people only on their performance and experience NOT on their ethnicity for that IS racism.
Affirmative action is not justice but a roadblock for those in our country who work hard.”
I agree that people should be accepted based on their performance and experience, but your idea that AA allows less qualified persons to have equal or better chances I don’t agree. How I think of AA is that it tries to give equal opportunities to pple from diverse backgrounds, it is not about accepting less qualified pple and barring those who are qualified. It is giving equal opportunities to all who are qualified, but taking into consideration diversiveness in order to create a well balanced community in terms of ethnic groups, assuming that there are more qualified persons than the openings available. Coz you don’t expecting somebody a low scorer in high school to be accepted to Cornell or any other good schools just because of their race or background. It is about equal opportunities to those qualified but from diverse backgrounds. Imagine a situation where you have 3 pple both qualified and there only 2 openings. Two of them come from the same ethnicity and one from a different ethnicity, what will you do as an employer? For me I will pick one from each ethnicity and reject taking both from same ethnicity. I think that is what AA is about. So in this scenario do you think AA is injustice?
You said,”I propose a system that looks more into class than race...”
I actually see the point you are making here which I really think it is correct that a system that looks more into class rather than race is much better. I agree that it happens in a staggering percentage AA goes overboard from the original intent. And may translate to injustice if not handle well.
You said “If doing poorly in school is a characteristic associated with blacks by blacks themselves, this is a major road-block to success and racial reconciliation”
I don’t know where this theory is from coz who on earth would want to be associated with failing and funny enough you said they like it “failing is a hobby? Something to be proud of?” this is strange, I don’t know may it depends on personalities and if that is the case then it can not be made to appear like a behavior of only pple from that particular ethnicity coz by doing that then we will be stereotyping them, don’t you think so?
You said “Here at Cornell, we pride ourselves on "Such diversity in one university". However, we sponsor de facto (which means willful, by choice) segregation by having such residence programs as Ujamaa, where the blacks go live, the Hispanic living center near Risley, and the International Living Center. We don't officially section people off, but we let them choose to section themselves off. I don't really understand how that's supposed to help people become more tolerant of other races.”
Jack I absolutely agree with you on this, I personally find it so problematic, it is really even causing more intolerance, this is something may be pple need to speak about it and even lobby about it to the university admin. Coz I think it not the right intent of diversity as Ezra Cornell wanted it to be “open doors, open hearts and open minds”
Man I hope you will find my comments helpful. Though I was writing them while I was watching my soccer.
By the way my team won Friday night game I was so happy about it.
Hey talk to you later.
Pat
******E N D ******
I think it is always a good idea to have discussion and engage each other on the “hot” issues in our societies today. In doing so I think we can learn from each other and positively influence each other.
I just decide to post this archive from one of the discussions that I have heard with friends especially in College concerning controversial issues in our societies today. Jack and I are great friend and we agree in almost many things.
Here is our conversation on Affirmative action (AA)
Notice that Jack seeked my opinion on AA, which he had with another friend. That is why am quoting some of the thinks he said or the other friend said in their conversation and I was stating my position on the same. Some of the quoted stuff may not be all Jack’s, could be other friend who said it. Anyways here we go:
Hey Jack, My comments are in blue, I picked some of the points that I thought I had a different perspective from yours.
You said, “Letting in people who won't do as well brings down the mean, which makes it easier for me to get an A in my classes. I'm for it!”
This is really interesting from your point of view and I think you are making an assumption that the highest percentage of those who score relatively low are from the “minority groups”. Absolutely I disagree with you, coz no statistics show your claim is truth so I think to begin with; you are headed in the wrong direction! If that is your reason for supporting AA, then it is misplaced.
You said “Judging people on anything but previous performance and experience is racism”
Absolutely I agree with U on this
You said “It makes sense that if I preform better than those applying at the same time with me then I would have a better chance to get in, right?”
No argument about it that is how it is supposed to be
You said “Affirmative action allows for less qualified persons to have equal or better chances of getting accepted than myself because of their race or financial background, in short that's 'inverse racism.' (bear with me) I know (because in the last six months I've applied to over 40 places) that on many job applications employers have added a comment under the "ethnicity" question that says "this information is not used for job placement." I've also noted that the information is not required at all, that an applicant can be judged only by their record and not their race or financial background. This should be a model for college admissions offices, accepting people only on their performance and experience NOT on their ethnicity for that IS racism.
Affirmative action is not justice but a roadblock for those in our country who work hard.”
I agree that people should be accepted based on their performance and experience, but your idea that AA allows less qualified persons to have equal or better chances I don’t agree. How I think of AA is that it tries to give equal opportunities to pple from diverse backgrounds, it is not about accepting less qualified pple and barring those who are qualified. It is giving equal opportunities to all who are qualified, but taking into consideration diversiveness in order to create a well balanced community in terms of ethnic groups, assuming that there are more qualified persons than the openings available. Coz you don’t expecting somebody a low scorer in high school to be accepted to Cornell or any other good schools just because of their race or background. It is about equal opportunities to those qualified but from diverse backgrounds. Imagine a situation where you have 3 pple both qualified and there only 2 openings. Two of them come from the same ethnicity and one from a different ethnicity, what will you do as an employer? For me I will pick one from each ethnicity and reject taking both from same ethnicity. I think that is what AA is about. So in this scenario do you think AA is injustice?
You said,”I propose a system that looks more into class than race...”
I actually see the point you are making here which I really think it is correct that a system that looks more into class rather than race is much better. I agree that it happens in a staggering percentage AA goes overboard from the original intent. And may translate to injustice if not handle well.
You said “If doing poorly in school is a characteristic associated with blacks by blacks themselves, this is a major road-block to success and racial reconciliation”
I don’t know where this theory is from coz who on earth would want to be associated with failing and funny enough you said they like it “failing is a hobby? Something to be proud of?” this is strange, I don’t know may it depends on personalities and if that is the case then it can not be made to appear like a behavior of only pple from that particular ethnicity coz by doing that then we will be stereotyping them, don’t you think so?
You said “Here at Cornell, we pride ourselves on "Such diversity in one university". However, we sponsor de facto (which means willful, by choice) segregation by having such residence programs as Ujamaa, where the blacks go live, the Hispanic living center near Risley, and the International Living Center. We don't officially section people off, but we let them choose to section themselves off. I don't really understand how that's supposed to help people become more tolerant of other races.”
Jack I absolutely agree with you on this, I personally find it so problematic, it is really even causing more intolerance, this is something may be pple need to speak about it and even lobby about it to the university admin. Coz I think it not the right intent of diversity as Ezra Cornell wanted it to be “open doors, open hearts and open minds”
Man I hope you will find my comments helpful. Though I was writing them while I was watching my soccer.
By the way my team won Friday night game I was so happy about it.
Hey talk to you later.
Pat
******E N D ******
Comments